Even more Bonus rants on Sonic Forces.

Pooor Sonic Forces. Again, I don’t hate the game, it’s just fascinating talking about it’s endless shortcomings.

Okay, the reason this video exists is because the level design and the IDW comic were once meant to be one video until I expanded it, and Captain Theory was already a guest so I asked him for his thoughts on the comic.But he couldn’t find any copies in his stores. And instead he sent me these rants about Sonic Forces.

I was trying to work it into the discussion of the IDW video, but that video was already long, AND I couldn’t find a natural place to fit it in, AND I found it funnier if Captain Theory barely said anything at all in that video.
So instead you get a bonus video out of the ordeal. You’re welcome, I guess.

Mastermind, Academic, Slot Guru, Travel Junkie, Lana Del Ray's Botox Injector. I make up a dream in my head before I go to bed.


  1. I still believe Classic Sonic should have been Tails. The story of Lone Soldier Prower, off on his own, trying to recover on a more personal level after dealing with the fallout of Sonic being supposedly dead would have been nice. Seeing him confront Eggman and fight against him instead of Classic Sonic after finding out new info about his plan or something could have been cool. Then when he recovers and learns that he needs to move on in support of what Sonic stood for and help get the world back on its feet, that's when he learns Sonic is alive, specifically so that he actually learned the lesson and bettered himself before the universe threw him that bone. It'd also make their meet up a lot more meaningful.

    Giving Tails his own Sonic to hang with might have been an amusing thing to do if it had been like the Joker in Arkham Knight. He thinks Sonic is dead so he imagines a version of Sonic is with him the whole time that can't talk or do or say anything. Then when he learns to get over his death, Classic Sonic fades away… I'd still prefer Classic Sonic not be in the game at all though.

  2. I guess using the avatar vs Tails was mostly for the marketing of the game, so that people could focus on their individual characters and it would've lost its flair if Tails was also around with the same playstyle. Although I feel that Tails going rogue after watching Eggman defeat sonic definitely would've been a nice plot for the game and would've also cancelled the need for classic sonic, but again the focus on marketing ruined that possibility as well.

  3. forget the fact tails wasn't the avatar, the wispon's various gameplay styles are perfect for sonic's friends yet they never let us play as them, here look.
    hover wispon = tails. hammer wispon = amy. void wispon(enemy grab 'n' crush) = silver.
    void wispon(teleport) + burst wispon(flamethrower) = shadow's chaos control and fire breakdance from sonic 06.
    lighting wispon(light speed dash) + drill wispon(wall climb) = sonic's light speed dash and wall running.
    finally asteroid wispon = cream, cheese, chocola, and possibly omochao.
    this would've been the perfect opportunity to reintroduce sonic's friends as playable characters and make them useful again, but they never do that, ugh.

    also speaking about sonic's imprisonment, that's exactly what i was thinking roger, make it a metroid scenario where sonic is super strong and stuff in the beginning, but after he was imprisoned, he lost some of his strength (probably muscle atrophy) so the player also loses some of his abilities, but as the story progresses he regains his strength and abilities.
    also i think they could've just had the heroes use the phantom ruby prototypes while infinite uses the real one, basically after sonic was captured, eggman started making phantom ruby copies (possibly along with infinite's clones) using the chaos emeralds, witch sonic figures out during his stay on the death egg but can't do anything about it, but when the resistance saves him, he let's them know about it and the resistance get some of those phantom ruby prototypes witch tails reverse engineers into wisp powered weapons that can be used against infinite and his creations and thus give the resistance the edge they needed, and THAT is why the resistance were failing until they saved sonic.

  4. My headcanon is Sonic was tortured to eat a chilly dog in a way he doesn't like, perhaps they made them wet in water. But the next time we see him, it turned out he not only got used to it, but also it became his favorite flavor.

  5. What would of been really cool is if you got to make your avatar have a personality that would change cut-scenes. Examples of personality choices is being shy, more edgy, friendly or even competitive and hate sonic.

  6. Oh, we don't really care about Tails, we just want the Sonic 2 imagery with the sidekick tagging along from a visual perspective. So, we're totally cool with one our favorite characters cowering in fear and snapping at his best friend. sigh

  7. Thank you Captain Theory for bringing up why the Custom Character pisses me off. It's the literal embodiment of every typical Sonic fanfic. Especially where the trope is they fill an already existing role, usurp the best friend spot, and/or usually appear as a replacement because character is either missing or killed off so the new best buddy can waltz on in. See "OMG Original Sonic Fanfic Idea" by Balenaproductions.

    I thought maybe magic would be better for the OC since it's not something we delve into that much. Like each wisp gives the OC a different elemental power or something. It can function practically the same as the game is now, but without feeling like they literally just screwed over Tails…which they did….and have been doing for years.

    Never get tired of the bonus rant with the big cheesy speech, and Sonic and the OC basically give the middle finger to it by not at all helping. And yes most of all as I and so many predicted since the first trailer, the "Resistance" was basically gonna be completely useless and Sonic will pretty much do everything. I'm not sure how much more insulting it can be to the Sonic universe when the Resistance just keeps on failing and basically on the brink of failure with 0.01% control, and then the Sonic's and the OC turn it all around in 3 days. I don't think you can have a clearer metaphor for the "Sonic's Useless Friends" argument than this game.

  8. Just so you know my hat is fine. I keep imagining that when the Rookie has to team up with Sonic, Sonic keeps clinging onto the Rookie continuously giving him/her inspiring messages. Even when the Rookie is in bed or on the Toilet.

  9. 0:33
    When I first saw this scene in the trailer I assumed it was near the end of the game since, judging by the way Sonic was acting, it seemed like they'd been working together for a while.

    Can you just do a sequel to your Sonic Forces rant? There's so much to cover.

  10. Ah yes, I remember this from the original script, always felt like it should've been its own thing. Closet I could see it working on the IDW one is with me in the middle, then he comes in pretty much squashing me in the trash can until he eventually leaves. Then I pop out saying, "Man, how do you guys put up with that Captain… whatshisname showing up out of nowhere like that?" Oh well, it's still very nice. Looks like Luke's going to need some medical attention, again. heh He should be lucky, after we got done filming, some garbage truck came by and hauled me away to a city dump. And then some street dogs came by and chewed my ass out. Going to be awhile to recover from that.

  11. The Death Egg, if one remembers Sonic 4 Episode 2, is Little Planet. I guess that's why Sonic was unfazed by his torture?

  12. Definitely feel that “Injustice Superman” effect(Superman in general really). It’s what ruined Justice League. I don’t think Sonic in this game is that bad though. The bad guys in Forces were actually able to beat Sonic themselves. The only reason the villain in Justice League was there is because Superman wasn’t, and the minute he came back and felt like fighting again, the movie was over.

    And I find it hard to say Tails was “screwed over”, especially “for years”. Sure he hasn’t been playable as much as he should’ve been, but he’s gotten more significant story attention than anyone else since 2010. I guess he was still “screwed over” because his portrayal was terrible, but he at least got a damn portrayal. Just because they used all their opportunities to make him despicable, doesn’t mean he didn’t get opportunities. And there are lots of characters that I like more than Tails, so I really have no pity for him in Forces.

  13. I'd rather Tails just disappear for at least one game… and see how Sonic fares without him! Hey, game premise idea!

  14. 2:08 Funny how Forces did literally the oposite of that, even after Sonic's second fight with Infinite, Sonic says "Unlike mechs, I can grow. I grow stronger every second!".

    Weird thing is that portraying him as some kind of Superman is a very consistent character trait of him, since Rush, Sonic has been all about power of friendship and in games like Secret Rings and Black Knight, he is portrayed as the one true savior, Black Knight goes as far as treating the other knights as incompetent knights that need Sonic' guidence and than is revealed that Sonic is the true King Arthur.

    There's also a recent interview with Shiro Maekawa, someone asked him what is Sonic's character and Maekawa said that Sonic is Super human, with almost no weakness and drama around him. This is a vision they had with Sonic's character existed even since the development of Adventure 1 and admited that this is the reason that made Sonic a challenge to write.

    This is vision is also consistent with SEGA's demands on other Sonic madia like Archie and IDW that probably started to take full force since 2006, like not being allowed to make Sonic cry extensively or make him lose battles (but temporal defeat are allowed, kinda like how Forces handle it).

  15. Hi Roger,

    there is a documentary of Sonic Forces from a japanese Newschannel (it's on English).
    I recommend you watching this and hear your opinions.


    My biggest worries about this documentary is not the "dashing like a maniac" thing or the questionable mindset of Sonic Team (well I'm worried about these things too). It's their focus on the japanese crowd. Please let me explain.

    Sonic is very unknown (even nonexcistend) in Japan and Sega is trying many years to attract many japanese people and always ends in failure. Sonic X was created to appeal japanese kids (Yuji Naka said that)

    The japanese media is mosty isolated from the rest of the world. Since most Japanese can't speak English properly, they are practiculary isolated (no IGN,no english Sozial Media,no english Forums,no divisive Fanbase [in Japan] , Deviantart [they don't know that this exists]…).
    You can see this on the documentary that these japanese Sonic fans are really positive on the Sonic Forces Demo (just imagine how western fans would give their honest opinions om public TV). If Sega acomplish capitalising the Asian Market than they don't have to worry about the complainings from the asian people, because they don't have to deal with the toxicity.

    It's better that you should "dissected" Japanese marketing philosophy and the typical approach of japanese Gamer (what type of games they like,….) in general (not just Sonic).

    I come from Austria and I have few years experience an japanese Websites and Media and I can guarentee you ,how isolated Japan is (not just Sonic)
    This may be sound like conspiracy theories for you and I'm sorry for my broken english and my grammar mistake. I wrote this in middle of the night in a short time. I hope you can at least understand what I am saying and thank you for reading this far.

  16. While playing the game i was never given the impression that there was a big event going on it didn’t even feel like eggman even conquered the world at all and I just can’t stand everybody praising the avitar for doing nothing

  17. Ah who am I kidding ive played this game too many times complained about it too many times and made too many videos about it. Sonic forces has really drained me

  18. I get the feeling that Japanese Sonic stories try to make Sonic a character like Kenshiro from Fist of the north star. The one effective hero Obliterating foes in one hit, Which while carthartic and seems like a great idea, but the sonic series avoids tension so it falls apart (IMO)

  19. But Roger at least Chip has personality and he and Sonic devolpe as friends. So the scene on the harbour is earned and you feel things because theyve talked and had time to form a friendship.

    Also another thing i dont get about the end of Forces. Are we meant to believe that Eggman is killed at the end? They charge right through his robot and the whole thing blows up. Every other game shows Eggman alive at the end (even the 1st 3). Or is Eggman even piloting it? Has he transformed into it? The game treats it more like a monster like Solaris or Dark Gaia than the Egg Emperor or Egg Beatle.

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